Author Topic: My book on the civil war in Manchester  (Read 4333 times)

arthurchappell

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My book on the civil war in Manchester
« on: 06:43:08, 26/07/07 »
My history book on the ivil War in Manchester is now available to buy online -

DEATH ON DEANSGATE - THE ENGLISH CIVIL WAR IN MANCHESTER 1642 Print: 8.44 Download:  2 .50 http://www.lulu.com/content/1034110
Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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RAB

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Re: My book on the civil war in Manchester
« Reply #1 on: 22:09:20, 30/07/07 »
Arthur, hello
.....this all sounds very interesting, as Manchester was, for some reason I do not yet fully understand and  unusually amidst Lancashire townships, in favour of Parliament against the King, in those times of terrible unrest
I do not know who the Royal protagonists were in those days, or their relations with religious leaders

It appears that dear Maggie Thatcher wasn't the only one to levy a 'Poll Tax', (a tax upon the population according to the means of each individual to pay, as determined by designated officials examining everyone's personal business)
I seem to remember this "Eve of Civil War"  'Poll Tax' was to be levied to pay Scottish forces and an Archbishop of Canterbury (? William Laud) was impeached somewhere along the line, but my mind grows dim....... :-\
Wasn't  there also a certain Thomas Wentworth, Earl of Strafford, put to death ??


arthurchappell

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Re: My book on the civil war in Manchester
« Reply #2 on: 00:02:13, 31/07/07 »
Arthur, hello
.....this all sounds very interesting, as Manchester was, for some reason I do not yet fully understand and  unusually amidst Lancashire townships, in favour of Parliament against the King, in those times of terrible unrest
I do not know who the Royal protagonists were in those days, or their relations with religious leaders

It appears that dear Maggie Thatcher wasn't the only one to levy a 'Poll Tax', (a tax upon the population according to the means of each individual to pay, as determined by designated officials examining everyone's personal business)
I seem to remember this "Eve of Civil War"  'Poll Tax' was to be levied to pay Scottish forces and an Archbishop of Canterbury (? William Laud) was impeached somewhere along the line, but my mind grows dim....... :-\
Wasn't  there also a certain Thomas Wentworth, Earl of Strafford, put to death ??

Hi Rab, you are right  on many points here. The main Royalists influencing events in Manchester were Lord Strange (who became the Earl Of Derby),  and his main ally, Lord Molyneux. Prince Rupert Of The Rhine was heavily involved in the siege of Withenshawe Hall.  - There was no poll tax as such, though several taxes that proved unpopular were tried out bythe King (Charles 1st, including Ship Money. This was a levy on ports and coastal towns for paying for a navy (as the seaside towns were the first lines of defence), but Charles tried to get inland towns to pay the tax too. He also rounded up men by levy for the unpopular and unsuccesful Bishops Wars of 1639 and 1641  caused when the Scots refused to be forced to read only prayers in the English Book Of Common Prayer and signed a petition called the National Covenant.  William Laud was an English Bishop  largely responsible for such reforms. He was imprisoned and executed. Charles also had to impeach and sign the death warrent for Wentworth (Stafford),  who had been in charge of controlling the Catholics in Ireland. Realising that Stafford was no longer in charge, the Irish Catholics rebelled. Charles  wanted to get money from parliament to send an army to Ireland to put down the extremely bloody rising there, but Parliament refused, claiming that Charles would use the army to fight his opponants in England too. The King tried to arrrest five MP's for treason over it and failed. That was the main cause of the Civil War.  Manchester actually had a lot of Catholics too,  butthe most powerful men were Puritans in favourof Parliament, and fence sitters like Humphrey Chetham were bullied into siding with them later on. Lord Strange got support from the Radcliffe family who hid him at Ordsall Hall  in his escape after the banquetting siege.
Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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RAB

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Re: My book on the civil war in Manchester
« Reply #3 on: 08:44:56, 31/07/07 »
Arthur hello,
Thanks for that, it all appears to have been basically the fault of Charles I - in that he did not have the money to pay off the Scottish Army for his mistake in trying to force the English common prayer book upon their Church
The Scottish Army occupied the valuable coalfields of Durham and would not go home without being paid off
Charles could only get this money by agreeing to the terms of Parliament who he had suspended for the last 11 years and so they were in no mood to humour him
Even when they agreed, on their strict terms, this money was raised from everyone in the country above a certain age and according to means as determined by some sort of 'Rolls' recording their possessions and their dues to this tax upon the people
I am only referencing one tiny area here because the whole subject is such an extensive field of study ......
Not sure what life was like in Manchester in those days or in the context of the bigger picture, world-wide, but I believe Cromwell swept many Catholics, whom he despised, off into slavery in the West Indies and left a deep stain in the minds of the Irish to this day

arthurchappell

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Re: My book on the civil war in Manchester
« Reply #4 on: 08:57:06, 31/07/07 »
Arthur hello,
Thanks for that, it all appears to have been basically the fault of Charles I - in that he did not have the money to pay off the Scottish Army for his mistake in trying to force the English common prayer book upon their Church
The Scottish Army occupied the valuable coalfields of Durham and would not go home without being paid off
Charles could only get this money by agreeing to the terms of Parliament who he had suspended for the last 11 years and so they were in no mood to humour him
Even when they agreed, on their strict terms, this money was raised from everyone in the country above a certain age and according to means as determined by some sort of 'Rolls' recording their possessions and their dues to this tax upon the people
I am only referencing one tiny area here because the whole subject is such an extensive field of study ......
Not sure what life was like in Manchester in those days or in the context of the bigger picture, world-wide, but I believe Cromwell swept many Catholics, whom he despised, off into slavery in the West Indies and left a deep stain in the minds of the Irish to this day
Very good yes - Manchester was already a growing cotton producing town at the time, with a lot of wealthy investers settling in the town - and a lot of gunpowder had been stored here, mostly stored at the Collegiate Church - now Chethams music college - the attacks on he town were attempts to take control of those powder supplies by Lord Strange who was actually the rightful owner in the first place. - Attacks on the Catholics were a problem - Charles was tolerant of Catholics and married to a French Catholic queen. Many Irish troops served in his armies - it was a senseless execution of a Catholic in Bolton that provoked Rupert and Derby to massacre half of the town's population.  Cromwell's own massacre of the Irish Catholics was committed when he went to Ireland in 1650 and slaughted 3,000 people in two towns each - Drogheda and Wexford - to bring the long running rebellion to an end. This was the rea start to the troubles. Arthur Chappell
Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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RAB

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Re: My book on the civil war in Manchester
« Reply #5 on: 11:23:10, 31/07/07 »
Thankyou Arthur,
I don't understand why a Royalist, Lord Strange, would have to attack the town to claim his property, or why it was taken from him in the first instance ?
Presumably his goods had been confiscated by the parliamentarians, i am not sure how people in Manchester knew which side of the line they stood in the Civil War or how well they were organised by Cromwell and surely this would have also led to infighting amongst the townsfolk ?

arthurchappell

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Re: My book on the civil war in Manchester
« Reply #6 on: 11:47:15, 31/07/07 »
Thankyou Arthur,
I don't understand why a Royalist, Lord Strange, would have to attack the town to claim his property, or why it was taken from him in the first instance ?
Presumably his goods had been confiscated by the parliamentarians, i am not sure how people in Manchester knew which side of the line they stood in the Civil War or how well they were organised by Cromwell and surely this would have also led to infighting amongst the townsfolk ?

Derby's property was taken illegally  when he took his powder kegs at Liverpool, and other estates - Parliamentarians showed much hostility to Royalists - The King found the gates of Hull slammed in his face at this time - war was now inevitable. Sir Ralph Assheton, of Middleton, one of Manchester's defenders - (there is a Middleton pub named after him) commandeered the Collegiate rooms. Strange came to Manchester to peacefully discuss strategies for the return of the powder and a riot ensued - largely through Parliament baiting - Strange vowed to return and take is goods by force. That was the siege itself that took place in September 1642 in attrocious weather.

Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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RAB

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Re: My book on the civil war in Manchester
« Reply #7 on: 12:18:28, 31/07/07 »
...perhaps the subsequent restoration of 'the crown' resulted in a retaliatory damnation of Manchester by royalty, despite the subsequent dominance of parliament from then on
I am presuming royalty became more of a token force after the results of the Civil War ?

Arthur, I can see I am going to have to take a look at your book - thanks for the insights
RAB  :)

arthurchappell

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Re: My book on the civil war in Manchester
« Reply #8 on: 12:26:40, 31/07/07 »
...perhaps the subsequent restoration of 'the crown' resulted in a retaliatory damnation of Manchester by royalty, despite the subsequent dominance of parliament from then on
I am presuming royalty became more of a token force after the results of the Civil War ?

Arthur, I can see I am going to have to take a look at your book - thanks for the insights
RAB  :)

Yes, Manchester was stripped of its MP's by Charles 2cd, and didn't get another until the Victorian era.  Charles 2cd still had a lot of power once returned - mostly as Richard Cromwell, Oliver's son, had been a weak leader and Charles had strong policies. A lot of Royalist estates confiscated by Parliamentary legislation were resnatched for leading royalists.  By all means do order a copy of the book - I'd appreciate it - you may also like the re-enactment show at Nantwich - not far from Manchester, over the August bank holiday weekend. It will be very spectacular.
Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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RAB

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Re: My book on the civil war in Manchester
« Reply #9 on: 13:58:58, 31/07/07 »
Thanks for that Arthur - it sound fascinating !!
RAB


arthurchappell

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Re: My book on the civil war in Manchester
« Reply #10 on: 16:03:48, 31/07/07 »
Your welcome - you can see the re-enactment group page at http://www.thesealedknot.org.uk/
Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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