Author Topic: Thomas Smith from Salford  (Read 681 times)

Very_British

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Thomas Smith from Salford
« on: 12:19:54, 10/09/17 »
Hello everyone,

It's been a few years since I was last here. So I hope you're all happy and healthy (especially those who I've had contact with in the past)? My reason for contacting fellow forum members this time relates to the following information. Before I start, my recent contact with the Salford City Council in the hope of assistance (as has been the case in previous communications in the distant past) did not bear much fruit. So, here goes...

My Grandmother: Mary Smith (nee Turner), DOB 21 April 1907 in Salford (not sure if it was Greengate or somewhere else) and died in 1994 in Woolston, Warrington.
She married: Thomas Smith (Snr. (date and location of marriage not known)). His DOB and place are not known. Died about 1962 (I assume in Manchester (Northenden) or Salford). So his death was a few years before I saw the light of day.

Their children:

1. Thomas Smith Jr. (Tom), DOB sometime in 1927 (I think) and died in 2006 age 79 in Bury;
2. Veronica (Vera) Barlow (nee Smith), DOB sometime in 1930 (I think) and died in 1994 in Northenden;
3. Henry, Patrick (Paddy) Smith, DOB... no idea and died in 1994 also in Northenden;
4. Michael Smith died in 1981 or 82 (DOB and date of death - no idea); and
5. Elizabeth (Betty) Keohane (nee Smith (my Mum)), DOB of 02 March 1938 and died in Plymouth in November 1998.
During the war (and for a certain amount of time thereafter), the family (or members of) resided in Bucklow Drive in Northenden (if this helps in any way?).
 
My request for further information is as follows:

6. A confirmation of Thomas Smith's (Snr) DOB and place of birth; and
7. Any information as to their parents (Turner and Smith (i.e. confirmation of birth, marriage and death certificates)).

I'd be most grateful for any feedback / confirmation from those who may have some useful leads. I'm conscious that the fore and surnames, "Thomas Smith" are probably about as common as muck and may not be all that easy. But one never knows. Otherwise, many thanks for reading and best wishes from Lower Saxony in Germany (ex H.M. Forces stationed in Paderborn in the 80's & early 90's being the reason why I reside in Germany).

Gary
« Last Edit: 12:39:09, 10/09/17 by Very_British »

Marj

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #1 on: 16:24:31, 11/09/17 »
Hi Gary

here is the marriage details for Thomas & Mary

Marriage: 17 Sep 1927 St Philip, Salford, Lancashire, England
 Thomas Smith - 25, Miner, Bachelor, 24 Sidney Street
 Mary Turner - 24, Spinster, 26 Sidney Street
     Groom's Father: James Smith, (deceased), Labourer
     Bride's Father: George Turner, Bricksetter
     Witness: James Smith; Mary Jane Smith
     Married by Banns by: Harold E. Sheen, Asst. Priest
     Register: Marriages 1923 - 1935, Page 88, Entry 175
     Source: LDS Film 1408727
 



Marj

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #2 on: 11:34:03, 12/09/17 »
Hi Gary the age of Mary on the marriage info is incorrect she would have been 19 and not 24. here is her family in 1911

Living in Manchester listed as boarders with Annie Thompson.
children's mother's maiden name is Hargreaves.

George Turner   42 Boarder  Bricksetter     b. Northwich Ches.
Annie Turner wife 31                                b. Pendleton
James Turner son 13                                b. Broadheath Ches.
Nora Turner dtr    11                                b. Pendleton
Kate Turner dtr      8                                b. Pendleton
Mary Turner dtr      3                      b. Salford.
Harry Turner son    0                               b. Manchester

1901 Census Rossall Street Pendleton

George Turner 32  Bricksetter                 b. Northwich Ches.
Annie  wife  24
George son 4                                        b. Hale Ches
James son  3                                         b. Broadheath ches
Nora dtr     1                                         b. Pendleton.

Marriage for George & Annie

Marriage: 3 Aug 1895 Christ Church, Salford, Lancashire, England
 George Albert Turner - 27, Bricksetter, Bachelor, 30 Hodge Lane
 Annie Hargreaves - 19, Spinster, 30 Hodge Lane
     Groom's Father: Albert Turner, Bricksetter
     Bride's Father: James Robert Hargreaves, Labourer
     Witness: William Turner; Catherine Turner, (X)
     Married by Banns by: Fred Knight
     Register: Marriages 1892 - 1895, Page 217, Entry 434
     Source: LDS Film 1786369

Marj





Very_British

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #3 on: 18:49:26, 13/09/17 »
Hello Marj,

I hope you're happy and healthy? Many, many thanks for the detailed information. Very sweet of you indeed. The fact that Thomas and Mary lived next door to each other in Sidney St. at the time was something I am already aware of. Sadly, paperwork has been mislaid somewhere in the house (having moved). But we're having a sort out later in the autumn. No doubt we'll find them again (together in a brown envelope). I met one of Nanna's sisters once many years ago. I'm pretty certain she was younger than her... and I can't even remember her name. Flippin' 'eckers like...  :-[

Anyway, I don't suppose you'd have a confirmed DOB and birthplace for Thomas Smith would you (perhaps too much to ask all at once)? I just need to dig a little more where he's concerned before I focus on other members of the family. Any information would be gratefully received.

Best wishes from Lower Saxony and have a nice evening,

Gary

lozflan

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #4 on: 07:50:33, 15/09/17 »
Just a note, a bricksetter, puts the clay bricks into the kiln, in a stack with a space between each one,ready for firing.
I came here to chew gum and kick ass and I'm all out of gum

Marj

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #5 on: 12:08:53, 15/09/17 »
Hi Gary.
 l
the 1939 register is on findmypast. living in Manchester is Michael Smith b.1935
if you have a subscription you can also see who is with him,
it also shows the date of births. Sorry I don't have a subscription to help.

on freebmd site

Births Jun 1935 

Smith  Michael  mothers maiden name. Turner  Manchester N.  8d 547

Marj   

Marj

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #6 on: 16:27:22, 16/09/17 »
Hi Gary, a possible death for Thomas.


Deaths Dec 1967   

SMITH  THOMAS  63  SALFORD  10F 564

Marj

Marj

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #7 on: 15:32:42, 17/09/17 »
Hi Gary,

another possible death.

Deaths Mar 1962   

SMITH  Thomas  55  Manchester  10e 529

On the 1938 register it gives his birth.1907.

Marj



Marj

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #8 on: 18:07:52, 29/09/17 »
Hi Gary

Michael Smith b. 19/5/1935 died 1981 Manchester.

1939  with Thomas b. 29/1/1907.(he could be the one who died
in Manchester 1962 aged 55 )

1911 Census Salford a possibility

James Smith 36 widow Labourer   b. Late Town County Meath
Mary Jane dtr 17   b.Draugheda Co Lough
Katie 15                        "              "
Lizzie 14                        "              "
Sarah Ann 12                 "              "
Patrick  8                b. Salford mmn Murphy
James   6                      "                  "
Thomas  4                     "                  "

Baptism on lan-opc

Baptism: 26 Oct 1902 St Peter, Greengate, Lancashire, England
 Patricius Smith - filius Jacobi Smith & Joannae (formerly Murphy)
     Born: 6 Oct 1902
     Abode: 2 East Thos. St.?
     Godparents: Georgius Byrne; Eleanora Gwinn?
     Baptised by: Gulielmo Aspinall
     Register: Baptisms 1902 - 1924, Page 25
     Source: Original Register at Lancashire Archives
 


Baptism: 5 Mar 1905 St Peter, Greengate, Lancashire, England
 Jacobus Smith - filius Jacobi Smith & Joannae (formerly Murphy)
     Born: 10 Feb 1905
     Abode: 12 Sandywell
     Godparents: Patrick Lesley; Julie Walker?
     Notes: ipse die 21/3/31 eccl. matrim. iniit [censored] Florentia Rocher
     Baptised by: H. Egbers
     Register: Baptisms 1902 - 1924, Page 76
     Source: Original Register at Lancashire Archives

Baptism: 17 Feb 1907 St Peter, Greengate, Lancashire, England
 Thomas Smith - filius Jacobi Smith & Joannae (formerly Murphy)
     Born: 29 Jan 1907
     Abode: 1 Sandywell, Greengate
     Godparents: Maria Joanna Smith
     Baptised by: Josepho Bannon
     Register: Baptisms 1902 - 1924, Page 109
     Source: Original Register at Lancashire Archives

Marj


Very_British

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #9 on: 23:06:40, 01/10/17 »
Hello Marj,

I hope you are happy and healthy? My apologies for not responding any sooner.

Blimey Charlie... it would appear you've done some digging to come up with all that information. In this instance, I'm ever so grateful to you. Thank you.

The time since 2004 researching the Keohane side (and STILL not 100% sure of Jeremiah Keohane's DOB, birthplace and parents!) meant the Smith / Turner side had to take a backseat. So I can now contact the records at Salford and enquire about certificates as well as update my family tree.

Going by your information, Thomas was born in England, which basically means I'm not eligible to apply for Irish citizenship given the fact that I'm British with residence in Germany (ex H.M. Forces stationed in Paderborn 'til 1995). That basically means, if (or 'when') the UK leave the EU, my position is unclear with the risk of being... disadvantaged. German websites are urging British ex-pats to apply for German nationality before the UK leaves. I have to remain in the EU, which is primarily because of my job but don't want to be forced to become a German national. Such a concern and not being entitled to (BREXIT) vote in June 2016 was a slap in the face for us Brits on the main land. My great-grandfather's are Irish. But that doesn't count sadly.

What an utter muddle...  :-\

I'll contact you should I have any further questions. Again, thank you sooooo much and best wishes,

Gary

PS my Nanna had a younger sister called Hilda (Redford). Do you have any idea when she was born (being younger than Nanna)? Thanks for any feedback...  :)
« Last Edit: 23:21:12, 01/10/17 by Very_British »

Marj

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #10 on: 15:47:20, 02/10/17 »
Hi Gary,

Do not send for certificates just yet, If Hilda your Nan sister is her (Redford)
married name or her mother's maiden name, if so the info I gave you is incorrect
The marriage could have been the wrong one.

Marj
« Last Edit: 16:05:13, 02/10/17 by Marj »

Very_British

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #11 on: 17:37:01, 02/10/17 »
Hiya Marj,

In response to your reply (thank you), I found original certificates yesterday (in a box in my workshop - silly me!) plus some newspaper cuttings from years past. I'll have a butcher's at them and contact you as soon as possible. Uploading an image would be advantageous if it's at all possible in this forum?

Best wishes,

Gary

Marj

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #12 on: 17:47:15, 02/10/17 »
Hi Gary,

Are you sure that Hilda was her name your 2nd post you could not remember your nan sister name, I have found this birth Ada but couldn't find any info on a Hilda
with mother's name Redford, also I haven't found a marriage.


Births Sep 1912   

Turner  Ada mmn  Hargreaves  Salford  8d 221

Marj

Very_British

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #13 on: 17:17:34, 29/10/17 »
Hello Marj,

I hope you're fit and well? My sincere apologies for not being in contact with you any sooner. Pretty hectic at the moment and won't cease given current circumstances (nothing bad). So my exchanges won't be as regular as I would want them to be.

Right, getting back to your last message, here's what I've found...

Hilda Redford (nee Turner). She's mentioned in a press cutting from 1994 as a result of my Nanna passing away ("... and sister to Hilda."). Her name is also mentioned as the "Informant" on Annie Turner's death certificate of 1st December 1950.

Furthermore, another old press cutting for Nora Rogerson (nee Turner) who passed away of 27 February 1984. Mum kept a few of these press cuttings, which I now possess as well as other artefacts, certificates, etc.

So I hope the aforementioned is a little clearer (in the sense of Hilda).

Best wishes to you,

Gary

PS - before continuing with this side of the family Marj, I have some questions / confirmations to ask you in a separate response to this one I'm about to send to you.

Very_British

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Re: Thomas Smith from Salford
« Reply #14 on: 18:14:50, 29/10/17 »
Hello again Marj,
 
Right, those questions / confirmations mentioned in my last post I sent to you some minutes ago:
 
1. Subject, Jeremiah Keohane: a very... VERY long story of which has no final conclusions / confirmations in terms of his exact date of birth and place of birth. This is ongoing given the time I 'don't' have sadly. I've had many a contact with individuals (including in this Forum) who've most kindly assisted in my journey to get the information I'd really like to have. Anyway, getting to the point... Jeremiah passed away in Prescot, Merseyside in 1941. Would you have an idea his exact date of death with the assumption St. Helens would more than likely be the nearest office where the his death would've been registered (that would be half the battle won at least)? And,
 
2. His son (my Grandad) Augustine Noel Keohane was born on the 24 December 1905 (hence the name Noel). He passed away in 1970 (assuming in Springfield Road in Sale). Could you please find out the exact date of his death (something, which has slipped my mind during my own research)?

I have a sneaky feeling the above-mentioned have already been answered in posts in previous years in some forum or other, which I've intended to document soon after but more than likely forgotten for some reason and lost the information as a result (silly me).
 
I know I'm asking a little too much given this post is about another part of my family, but your feedback would be very much appreciated. It is also of importance given a potential Christmas present for my kids and relates to "Keohane - 5 Generations". I'll explain / show more when the time comes (just hope it'll work out).
 
 For now though, here's sending you best wishes from a rather windy North Sea coast in Lower Saxony,
 
 Gary
 
« Last Edit: 18:29:32, 29/10/17 by Very_British »