Author Topic: Confused  (Read 415 times)

Dorothyl

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Confused
« on: 11:01:59, 04/08/18 »
Hi everyone.
I'm hoping someone can help me with this ?  It's Abit confusing.


What I'm trying to find out is where would the surname name of hill come from ?


On my certificates  I have . My  gran was born in Scotland. But moved to england  around 1911 just after she was born. I have been told that she could have been adopted by who we know as her birth father.  Who was born in England  1883. There are no birth records for my gran  (eveline shulman )  non anywhere. 


She got married to my grandad Alfred evan Jones in 1933 in cholton on Medlock Manchester. Where my grandad was living with his mum . He was 19 my gran eveline. Was 24 acording to her age on her marriage certificate.


When my mum was born in 1937.
On her birth certificate.  It has her name.  And her dad's name . But where it says name surname and maiden surname of mother.  It says  eveline Jones formally hill. Which is confusing because  there's no records of anyone called hill.
What I think  is maybe she was married before she married my grandad. But used  her maiden name when she married him .  I have also been told by my auntie.  who was born in 1944 .she always thought  her birth father was my grandad or the man my gran married after my grandad passed away in 1946.when my auntie applied for her birth certificate. Her full one. She was told they couldn't issue her one because  her father's details she gave wasn't true. So when she asked why. They gave her a shock.  Her father's name was James Adams and he was in air force .


So im  thinking  what if my gran was married before she married my grandad Alfred evan Jones?


I've been trying to find out this for over a year .I was told by someone who was helping me last year. That if my gran was married before she married my grandad . It would come up formally known as hill.  My auntie  said  it wouldn't .because  it would have been the same when she was  born the name formally known Adams.


so if there's anyone who can please help me with this  I would really appreciate it honestly.


And at the moment I have to wait  for  finding out if my gran was actually adopted.  As on her death certificate  it says fathers name David Joseph shulman  but doesn't have her mother's name.  It as been mentioned to me  that it's possible  David Joseph shulman is her adopted father  and one of his sisters  was / is the mother of my gran. And was having her baby out of wedlock. And because  David Joseph shulman married Annie O'Brien in Aberdeen where my gran was born.  David Joseph shulman and Annie O'Brien married in Scotland  and all moved to his  birth place .


David Joseph shulmans  parents  was Russian German Jews.  The imergrated from Germany to England  and then at the age of 8  they moved to Scotland. Where  David  grew up. And then married  annie o'brien .
David is buried in blackley cemetery in Manchester  and apparently  he's buried in the Jewish part of the cemetery. Even though he was was born in England.


I've been doing my grans family background  since late 2016. I've got so far where she died  which is back where she was born in Scotland.  She went back to Scotland  in 1958 taking her daughter with her leaving my mum in England. Only because  I was a baby. And my mum was with my dad.  So my gran  lived in Scotland  from 1958 until 1998 when she passed away  and she was a widow  again. She married Mr James owens in 1946 not long after my grandad passed away.   And I've got where she was married in 1933 the only thing I haven't got is 
Was she adopted or not  if she was she would have put her both parents name's  down on something.  Unless  her father is David Joseph shulman  and  her mother  is the surname of hill? 


This is what I'm trying to piece together.  So if anyone can please help me with this. It would be a great help.
As both my auntie and I  are trying to find out. If my gran  ( her mum ) was adopted  or not  and where the surname of hill come from? 


Thank you again for your help and time  I'm sorry if it's a lengthy  topic .




Thank you again for your help and time.


Dorothy

Jan H

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Re: Confused
« Reply #1 on: 15:52:10, 04/08/18 »
For the surname Hill, just google origin of surnames.   :)

will take a look at the other points you make .
Jan x

Looking on the marriage index on Lancashire BMD I note that the spelling is Schulman not Shulman, so will
take a look under that spelling.
« Last Edit: 16:05:17, 04/08/18 by Jan H »

Jan H

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Re: Confused
« Reply #2 on: 16:19:04, 04/08/18 »
I have found David Schulman on the 1901 census.
He is a patient in Manchester Royal Infirmary, it says he is single born Scotland.

Try contacting Manchester and Lancashire Family History Centre in Manchester Central Library,
they have a wealth of information on Jewish history
« Last Edit: 16:29:56, 04/08/18 by Jan H »

Dorothyl

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Re: Confused
« Reply #3 on: 17:42:35, 04/08/18 »
Hi Thank you for your help .


I definitely know that  David Joseph shulman. Was born in England. And in manchester .
I have his birth certificate and death certificate .I also think I have his marriage document.  He was married in Scotland  1900 +to a lady called Annie O'Brien .she was born in India. She is the daughter of a soldier who was stationed in India .


Apparently David Joseph shulmans  parents  imergrated from Germany in the late 1800s  and was living in England. When he was 8 they all moved to Scotland.  Where he ended up with siblings being born in Scotland.  When David Joseph shulman was old enough  he had a job as a news paper reporter .then 1909 he married annie o'brien .and my gran eveline was born 1911. She always said her father was David Joseph shulman. But never mentioned her mum's name. David Joseph shulman has a few sisters  and one passed away 1898 a year after she was born  davids mum passed away  a few weeks after she had her daughter who was called  Eva . Which is a coincidence  because my gran used to be liked to be called Eva . Even though her name is eveline . David's sisters are called  Rebecca and Rachel .
From what my auntie said it's possible  one of davids sisters  was the mother of my gran. It's just figuring out which one. I can't help thinking what if David Joseph shulman is the birth father of my gran .but the only thing is  who is my grans real birth  mother ?   I also  know that David Joseph shulman passed away in England  when he moved back home bringing  his wife and my gran with him. He passed away 1921./26 I'm not sure at the moment  I have got when on his certificate .


I've tryed everything I could think of .but I don't seem to be getting anywhere. Maybe  I'm not asking the correct questions.


Anyway thank you again for your help with this.




Dorothy

Marj

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Re: Confused
« Reply #4 on: 16:28:21, 05/08/18 »

Hi Dorothy,


1911 census Scotland St Machar


Annie Schulman 33
Dave Joseph  Shulman 29
Eva Barrett Schulman  5


Marriage David & Annie in 1908 St Machar.


Can't find a birth for Eveline b. 1911 Scotland or can I fined a birth for Eva Barrett Schulman in
1905/6


Wondering if Eva is your Eveline  I don't have a subscription to Scottish people you could buy a few credits to find out where Eva was born,


Marj