Author Topic: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.  (Read 17870 times)

doktorjim

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #15 on: 08:57:14, 22/10/15 »
Perhaps no-one else is looking at this site now. I hit upon it by accident in looking up North Manchester. All those years I thought I was the only one who had been abused by Sibson. The shame of what he did to me in my 1st year, aged 11. The memories are still vivid. He locked me in a room all day before getting me to drop my trousers, feel my backside and then thrashed me with a cane.  Following this first punishment, he regularly called me from PE lessons in my shorts to feel my thighs etc. [censored]. He lost interest as I grew older. No wonder he taught the 1st year....seeking fresh fodder.

crumpsallboy

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #16 on: 16:15:32, 07/11/15 »
Quote
Interesting that RMS married late in life, I did not know that and I am really pleased that the homosexual rumour has been laid to rest. He got this tag because he lived with his mother until his mid 50's.
You are right that he resigned when the comprehensive school system was introduced - a complete anathema to him. He then became Chief Inspector of Schools in Zambia where I had the good fortune to meet him again. I walked into his office unannounced and he knew my name immediately. A truly remarkable feat considering he had not laid eyes on me for 9 years. I should not have been surprised as he knew every pupil's name - amazing skill as there were over 700 boys at NMGS with a new intake every year of over 100. He taught Religious Instruction, as it was then known, to all first year classes so that he could get to know all new boys.
RMS was a brilliant and dedicated (if very strict) headmaster who had the betterment of all pupils at the heart of everything he did. It is nothing short of an outrage that failed students should choose to tell blatant lies about him.

Blatant lies , I don't think so! I attended NMGS from 1964 to 1971. I was a lad from a small primary school and the only one to pass the 11 plus from that school. As a consequence, I knew no other boys at first. Sibson singled me out in my first year for some minor offence, perhaps talking , and I was commanded to report to his study at the end of the school day. I was forced to wait outside his room in that tiled vestibule whilst the whole school left for the day. At last the green light went on and I entered Sibson's domain. After some time he offered me a choice: six strokes of the cane or a spanking administered by hand. I was small and frightened and chose what I thought were the lesser of two evils.

I had to go with him into his private toilet/bathroom adjacent to his office where he took down my shorts, laid a towel across his lap and made me lie across his knees. He then spanked my bare behind with no mercy. When the beating was over , he made me stand in front of him , still in a state of undress while  he abused me further. This was over 50 years ago but most of it remains as clear as day.

We all lived in a time when grammar school teachers and especially headteachers were regarded as high status figures and it would have been very difficult to go home and tell my parents that i thought I had been wronged. If anything, I was scared I may have been in more trouble.

After reading some of the posts on this thread , I felt compelled to contribute and have been thinking about this all day. I am now married with two children and two grandchildren but that episode has undoubtedly left it's mark on me. To those others who have had the courage to speak out about Sibson, I would like to express my admiration and thanks. To those misguided posters who have tried to defend him, at the very best you are very misguided and possibly lucky you were not subjected to abuse by that vile creature. Just because you were not abused , it does not give you the right to question the testimonies of those who undoubtedly were.

There is nothing wrong in my view in being gay but a straight or gay paedophile who uses his power to abuse frightened children in his care should, as a previous poster suggested , burn in hell.
« Last Edit: 16:21:32, 07/11/15 by crumpsallboy »

landi

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #17 on: 21:57:24, 03/12/15 »
Sibson abused me and many others in my year ' I always got the cane. it was widely known he would put his hand up your school shorts. and yes he abused me too.
he was a vicious nasty little hitler who systematically abused the boys in his care . I and others were terrified of him.
may I thank the others here who have come forward. I can not express the relief I have in being able to talk about it
when we heard he had died my class cheered .
for those who defend him you didn't know him

Butch

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #18 on: 01:41:41, 22/12/15 »
Ronnie M Sibson DID NOT use the cane.  He used a piece of hard leather ( we called it black bess ) which in Scotland is known as thr TAWSE.  I was there '56 -'62'.  When it came to a whacking, I was always in the "middle order" of batting.  I remember once that a window had been broken in the Biology Lab, Mr Sibson asked the boy responsible to "own up".  When nobody stood up, he remarked that the lack of honesty grieved him.  He then went on to ask that "the following boys line up outside his office after Assembly".  Yup, I was in the list.  When it was my turn ( no he did not put his hand down my trousers ) he said " I know that you might feel agrieved for being punished even though you are innocent, but knowing you as I do, you have probaly done something which we do not know about, so look upon this as punishment in absentia. The best thing about NMGS was that"working class boys" got a Classical education ( Public School on the rates). I, and many of my fellow pupils went on to university.  I became an engineer, teacher , Bookmaker (maths, aint it great!) and DIYer at B&Q.. I remeber NMGS fondly.

landi

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #19 on: 09:43:19, 22/12/15 »
no he did not use it on you but he did use it on others and he was a child molester. think yourself lucky . neither I or the others are liars.
jimmy Saville was a big charity fundraiser  . you were the  shield for him.

Expatinscouseland

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #20 on: 16:28:24, 15/01/16 »
I looked up my old school on line, and came across this! I went to NMGS from 1963 to 1970, and what a relief to see so many people speaking the truth about Ronald Martin Sibson. He abused me and my twin brother in the ways described, long "moralistic" lectures alone in his study as his hand went my trousers and fiddled with my buttocks. Only now that my parents are dead do I feel that I can discuss it in any open forum. They would be devastated, such was the prestige at the time in going to a Grammar school, for working class lads. Sibson was a pervert who ran the school on total terror. My heart would beat fast as I walked through the vestibule from one side of the school to the other, in case he came out of his study, as he was wont to do,  watch us pass, and instruct someone to go into his study! An abuse of power and authority just like we see in the Catholic Church.

Jeff Packman(Dearden)

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #21 on: 15:32:19, 08/01/17 »
Reading all the comments re Sibson. I attended as Jeff Dearden from 1951 to 1976, yes he was sadistical, never beat me with a cane he had a middle east leather knife sheath, which he told me held a piece of high tensile steel. He called it Black Bess, and I hated it because he used it on me at least once a week. He did make me pull my trousers down to expose my naked backside, but he never touched me innappropriately. After the beating, he always asked the same question: "What is the school because you attend it" the reply was a far better place Sir, no reply another beating, finally Thank you Sir. Your correspondent who spoke of a beating for breaking a window is mistaken, I was that boy and I did own up and got six of the best, and I have know knowledge of anybody else being beaten for this mis-demeanor. I also find it impossible for him to be Anti semitic, at least 2 to 3 hundred Jewish boys attended the school until King Davids school was built for Jewish boys; one of my best friends was a jewish boy named Sammy Freedman and he never mentioned anti semitism to me. Finally I was there when a Comprehensive school was built adjoining NMGS playground at least 2-3 years before I left and he was still there when I left i 1956. I did not meet him in Zambia, but whilst working in Joburg, I bumped into an old boy (Blazer and OB's badge) and he told me he was working in Zambia as the head of Education for that country.

John Elam

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #22 on: 14:01:27, 12/02/17 »
I was a pupil at NMGS from 1956- 63 after which I went to Leeds University before graduating in 1966.
    I was pleased to be among the small percentage who passed the 11 plus and enter the school. My parents were initially impressed by Sibson and the teaching staff. At the end of my first term I had an accident in the gym and was unable to walk. Sibson kindly gave me a lift home in his car explained what had happened and left. In my second term I caught rheumatic fever and was in Booth Hall hospital for a couple of months. During my time in hospital Sibson visited me, bringing bars of chocolate, text books, and other boys exercise books in order that I could copy class notes in order to keep up. Upon return to school I was advised by doctors to take it easy and refrain from games sessions. I can remember Sibson querying  with my parents as to whether this was really necessary. My parents response was. Are you a doctor?
    Shortly after this I was caught by Sibson indulging with another boy at playtime in what might be described as friendly rough play. We were both hauled off to his office where we were both individually given six of the best with his hand on our backsides. After this humiliation I was further humiliated by being forced to say “Thank you sir”.
     Not long after this incident I was called to his office for some minor  thing which after 60 years eludes me. He was sitting on a high backed leather chair and called me over. He then said come closer to me several times. By this time I was so close I could smell his breath. He then proceeded to  stroke the back of my leg and fondle my buttock underneath my short trousers. I noticed that his eyes were closed and he murmured “You know you're a funny chap”. I was at this time totally innocent and totally puzzled by this behaviour.
    That evening I mentioned the incident to my mother. She was nobody's fool and must have realised. My parents took no action probably because it would have been denied and could have jeopardised my future in the school. From that time their attitude towards him was totally different.
    A couple of years later conversations with other boys confirmed similar treatment. Beatings by Sibson were common place and often for trivial things. The man may not have been a homosexual but I am convinced he was a paedophile with sadomasochistic tendencies with a penchant for young boys.
    He was an MA from Balliol in Greats I seem to remember. His teaching was confined to Latin, Greek, and Religious Instruction. He had taught in Palestine sometime before becoming Headmaster in 1948 and had contributed an article to the Inter-varsity Magazine Biblical Group entitled “ Problems in Palestine”.
    I grew to loathe the man. One day in Assembly he was not there to pontificate. Another master took the Assembly and explained that both Sibson's mother and brother had both died. I remember feeling no sympathy and thinking one more and we could have a hat trick of Sibsons.
    Later I remember learning that he had got married to a retired Matron. My mother made a prescient remark. “He doesn't want a wife. He wants a free housekeeper and carer for his old age”.
    Since those days we have heard of questionable behaviour from other pillars of Society including Cyril Smith, Jimmy Saville, Greville Janner,  John Smyth , Catholic priests et al.  I think society has become more aware of bad eggs and there is more safeguarding of young people. At least I hope so.
     The school achieved good results despite the questionable leadership. I believe that this was due to the dedicated and inspirational teaching by many of the staff. I particularly remember Holy Joe Townshend,  Coddy Roberts, Jake Milburn, TACs Crossley, Shoddy Thompson, Dickie Dawson, and Ernie Robinson in this respect.
     I need to get this matter off my chest even after 60 years. Thank you for reading.

celeste

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #23 on: 15:18:24, 12/02/17 »

quote John Elam - That evening I mentioned the incident to my mother. She was nobody's fool and must have realised. My parents took no action probably because it would have been denied and could have jeopardised my future in the school. From that time their attitude towards him was totally different.


I understand that if the headmaster had been informed that there would have been repercussions but I would have removed you from that school forthwith
All that's necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

John Elam

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #24 on: 19:11:10, 12/02/17 »
Yes, but easy to say.There were no other Grammar Schools in the area and if there were no guarantee of getting in.  Doubt that I would have obtained the same education. Education was of paramount importance in my family. There is a possibility that my parents may have taken some action but if so I was unaware of it.
Suffice to say there were no further incidents

bel1941

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #25 on: 21:14:00, 12/02/17 »
At first I was sceptical about the Sibson abuse reports,but with so many unconnected accounts, I have to accept that these events did happen.
I was there from 1953-58 and what I find hard to understand is that ,in all that time, there were not even whispers of abuse from RMS . This is hard to take in with a year group of c 120 who conversed on a daily basis.

SteveE

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #26 on: 10:15:02, 20/02/17 »
Perhaps the most surprising post on this site is one by my own brother, who is some five years older than me, who like me attended NMGS. He recounts experiences similar to my own, which in over 50 years we have not discussed.

I attended NMGS between 1961 and 1968. However in 1961 the 11+ exams tested three areas intelligence quota (IQ), English, and Math’s, and I am living proof that if you are good at Math’s and have a high enough IQ you could pass the 11+ without being able to write or spell. I am dyslexic, i.e. I have problems with words, both in English and even worse in French, but I do not suffer from dyscalculia, i.e. I do not have problems with numbers, as my “A” level Math’s grades and University courses show.

My problem with Sibson occurred after the Christmas exams in my first year. Sibson set and marked the Religious instruction exam. He seemed unable to believe any boy could get into his school with an inability to write/spell properly, (I still can’t, but word processors, spell checkers, and text aloud programs do help.)   I was summoned to his office after school, I believe on a Wednesday to explain my unacceptable exam paper. What followed was an hour of humiliation, threats and upper thigh stroking, but no contact with my genitals.  Being told to read my exam paper aloud, caused me problems. Because I knew what I intended to write, I read the paper missing out repeated words, filling in missing words, and correctly pronouncing  misspelt words. At the end of this session I was told to choose my punishment for being lazy, to have my bare behind beaten by hand, or be caned while wearing my (short) trousers. I was told to return on Friday after school with my decision.
Friday came, another hour attempting to read aloud, exactly what I had written on my exam paper, while having the back of my thigh stroked, ending with the instruction to rewrite my exam paper over the weekend and revisit his study on Monday with my rewritten exam paper and to receive my selected punishment.

My mother was invited to visit Sibson during school the following Monday, the length and nature of this interview was never explained to me, Mum only said the meeting was brief, though to her dying day she did refer  to him as, “that horrible man”. However on visiting Sibson’s study after her visit, his attitude to me had changed, no humiliation, no leg stroking, no punishment threats, only some comments about trying to pick a number of words each night from the newspaper and learning how to spell them, and five minutes later I was on my way home.

Enough said about Sibson, fortunately in my fourth year I selected to study Geology, and came in contact with David (Shoddy) Thompson, who was an inspirational teacher. He did have some problems understanding my problems writing, but also recognised my abilities and enthusiasm for Geology. I left NMGS with good “A” levels in Geology, Math’s and Physics, attended Leeds University where I obtained an Honours B Sc and an M Sc, and went on to work as a professional  Geologist/Geophysicist largely for an American oil company for 40 years, before recently retiring.
 I did keep in contact with “Shoddy” when he left NMGS and went to teach at Keele University, where he received an award from the British Geological Society for teaching geology for 40 years, and published at least one book on geology. Sadly he recently died; he was certainly the teacher I owe most to. Sibson is just a person I would rather forget.

wellsavenue1

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #27 on: 12:10:56, 26/03/17 »
bel 1941. I read you have the words to the NMGS school hymn. Would you be so kind as to either email them to me or post it on the site. I can remember the eyes and lips lines but none of the others!

bel1941

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #28 on: 15:26:42, 26/03/17 »
No problem. I'll find the words and in the meantime let me know your email address.


Brian Lawler

PhilPlatts

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Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #29 on: 11:55:01, 29/03/17 »
First post, having found this thread!


I was at NMGS for Boys from 1963 to 1969. I've used my real name and 'Hi' to anyone I knew at school.


I think the Sibson debate has been flogged (sorry!) a fair bit without my wading in. I would say only that he never caused me any problems but there were one or two whisperings from friends I knew at the school and there seems to be a weight of evidence from others on this forum who appear moderate types of people, so I'm inclined to believe them, but otherwise can't add to the debate.


I do have fond memories of my time there and many pals. Does anyone know if any of the teachers are still alive and contactable?


I'd be particularly keen to hear from anyone who was on the school trip to Austria in 1966 - we were there when the World Cup Final was taking place. Usually I have a very good memory for people and events in the distant past but I have great trouble recalling who was on that school trip. Would be great to hear from anyone who was a pal at the school or on that trip. I made a nostalgic visit a few years ago to Pension Seiwald as I think the hotel was called, but it has all changed and the owner was more anxious to tell me about all the changes he'd made since his father died and left the hotel to him, rather than indulge me!!