Author Topic: police stop and search activity in manchester  (Read 11127 times)

arthurchappell

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I fell foul of the Greater Manchester Police ‘Stop And Search’ rulings today, (Wednesday 22cd August 2007). For no other reason that I was sitting by a public fountain.

Having been for an abortive job interview in North Manchester in the morning, and as I was due to attend a course on improving job-hunting skills in mid-afternoon, I found myself with about an hour to spare, so I decided to have lunch by the fountains in Manchester’s Piccadilly Gardens.

I ate my sandwich quickly, read the free newspaper I had been handed as I stepped off my bus, and just chilled out without a care in the world.

The fountains are a regular perch for me, as they are close to the bus stop I travel home from. I can see the clock on Debenhams, my bus arriving, and watch the water patterns of the fountains themselves.

As it was a hot day, lots of people were running about in the flumes of the fountain. This is not unusual. I have even done so myself on occasion.

With about fifteen minutes to go before I was due on my afternoon course, I noticed that the police had arrived and that they were closely questioning a man over the other side of the fountains. He seemed angry and nervous, but co-operative. I wondered what he had done wrong. After a while, the two policemen wrote out a form of some kind and handed it to him. He went away. They started to walk round in my direction, and after a moment I realized that they were heading directly towards me.

They stood either side of me, and asked me how long I had been sitting around. I told them honestly, but they were adamant that it must have been much longer. I asked why I shouldn’t be there all day if I wished, as it was a public park. They now told me that complaints had been made that a man had been watching the children who were among bathers in the fountains. I told them that I couldn’t careless about the kids. They asked me why I had been seen on CCTV taking pictures of them. I asked how this was possible, as I wasn’t even carrying a camera or a camera-phone of any kind, and never do. I don’t even have a camera. 

I had little doubt that the previous man questioned had heard thus very same routine. Though they didn’t accuse me directly of anything, they insisted that I move away and that I should not be seen in the Piccadilly gardens area again.  I have in effect, been barred from a public open space in my own city centre.

They insisted that I show them proof of my identity, and allow them to search my bag and my coat pockets. I allowed it, having nothing to hide from them.  They then filled out a form similar to that I had seen being handed to their immediately previous target. It gave as the reason for the ‘stop as; (IN BLOCK CAPITALS)

“INFORMATION PASSED BY SECURITY & CONCERNED PARENTS SAYING MALE IS LOOKING AT CHILDREN”.

Note that it doesn’t say ‘A MALE’ or ‘THIS MALE’ or make any direct accusations against myself, by name or otherwise, or anyone else. It leaves everything horribly ambiguous. Handed the form, I was now told not to be seen in the Gardens again. The police, as I left (now almost late for my course anyway due tot heir chat) immediately pounced on another randomly picked gentleman with an identical spiel.

I read my yellow copy of the stop and search form, which indicates that I was stopped but not that my coat and bag were searched. (And that nothing felonious was found). Asked for my height, I told the police that I was five foot nine, but they logged it as five foot ten.  For my build, they just write ‘FAT’ which is true in some respects but also rather derogatory and offensive in its expression. My ace shape has been left blank, indicating that I have none, and where it asks if I have any facial scars they say no, indicating a complete failure at point blank range to see the eighteen stitches long groove on my left cheek. These are the men who apparently say that I was seen using a non-existent camera to take shots of children.

I was asked if I have frequented the gardens before. I have and I said so. It is a convenient beauty spot for me to wait for transport, and directly between many locations and myself I head to in the city centre. I had in fact been in the gardens earlier the morning of the later search; despite they’re being no children and the fountains being totally inactive. If my only purpose in visiting the Gardens and Fountains was to stalk children, why was I happy to be there when there were none around? The CCTV camera footage should confirm that only myself, and a chap carrying large music speakers (which he had been using to play religious music earlier elsewhere in town) present.

What was going on? I have no doubt that I was not showing any interesting any children in Manchester. That they are going to be attracted to a public park area is inevitable. Neither myself nor anyone else should be expected to avoid allowing them into our field of vision.

I have every appreciation for the police wanting to protect us all, but without specific evidence and direct accusations by witnesses willing to step forward and be counted, they should not be hassling people for just being in a public park or water feature area. The idea that single adult males or anyone else should vacate an area like this because children wish to enjoy the facilities is a blatant infringement of my public rights. I found myself swept up in a police challenge to at least two other men, who as I saw it, were just picked out randomly for not being with other people or at least with children of their own.

I wish to know whether I have any right to continue to visit my city centre and for any period of time of my choosing, be it a matter of minutes or hours. I object to the rationing of my right to use any public park, or seating facility.  If allegations were raised about anyone posing any kind of threat or a cause for concern to children then the accusation needs to be investigated properly, specifically and professionally.  For the police to simply target any men just quietly minding their own business, or being in an area for any period of time, shows a lack of realism in the approach concerned.  A vague notion that I, or anyone else was sitting around for too long is an accusation with its foundations in nothing. 

Looking online I see that the police are highly criticised for over-using the stop and search tactics on the Asian community – they seem to be artificially boosting the Caucasian tally with such ill-founded accusations –

I am entitled to be in any open public space for as few or many hours as I wish irrespective of any other people using the area, unless for some specific hired closed audience event, such as a pay to view concert – hearing that someone unidentified as a possible child watcher is not a basis to drive any and all men away from any public location. Without specific, incontrovertible evidence I believe that there was no reason for me to be challenged and had any such evidence against me existed then I should have been arrested rather than just intimidated into going away. 

Didn’t tell them I write erotica for grown ups – they might have got the wrong idea there too. Talking of which, my next Scarlet story is due out in tomorrow’s (September) issue.
Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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celeste

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #1 on: 20:43:30, 22/08/07 »
That is absolutely disgraceful, if someone reports anything like that, why aren't plain clothes police used to gather evidence before making innocent people feel wretched, I suggest you contact your MP and ask him to write a letter to the Chief Inspector relaying your experience and disgust at being put in that position  >:( >:( >:( >:(
All that's necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

arthurchappell

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #2 on: 20:48:39, 22/08/07 »
Tempting, but the stigma of even being accused of being a child stalker or molester runs deep - any publicity against such attacks is lokely to backfire on the complainant - i'm making sure In log my concerns on the net in case there are any repercussions though I doubt if there will be - just annoys me that i feel the need to avoid a favourite place for a while as if i'm in te wrong for even passing through though i'd be in my rights to be there 24/7
Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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celeste

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #3 on: 20:59:28, 22/08/07 »
they are probably going to have police there every day now while the good weather lasts, perhaps they are more frightened of children being abducted since  Madeleine McCann went missing
All that's necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

arthurchappell

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #4 on: 21:02:50, 22/08/07 »
yes, but randomly challenging everyone around there isn;t going to help - I saw the heavy police presense and if i was up to no good i'd have felt the need to move away - i stayed seeing no reason to be suspected of anything buy i was wrong
Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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celeste

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #5 on: 21:23:48, 22/08/07 »
staying there was definitely a point in your favour, and a wise thing to do, are there cctv cameras there -working of course is another matter?
All that's necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

arthurchappell

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #6 on: 21:29:03, 22/08/07 »
staying there was definitely a point in your favour, and a wise thing to do, are there cctv cameras there -working of course is another matter?
I stayed from not thinking i had any reason to think i;d done anything wrong - there is cctv there - lots of it - all they would see is that i was there  for about an hour - the cops claiming it showed me using a camera was just a bluff - i didn't even have one
Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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celeste

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #7 on: 21:55:08, 22/08/07 »
this form you had to fill in, did they give you a copy?
All that's necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

arthurchappell

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #8 on: 22:00:17, 22/08/07 »
yes, the copy is what I quote in my first posting on yjis thread 0 they deny searching me though that could refer to a body search rather than bag and pocket searching
Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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RAB

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #9 on: 22:09:05, 22/08/07 »
About five years ago, accompanied by a female, I photographed a school in Stockton Heath, because I liked the architectural details and was, apparently, reported to the Police by a nosey and 'concerned' passer-by (a busy-body !!)
Later that evening a burly and rough-looking male officer, accompanied by a 'dolly-bird' female officer, knocked on my parents front door and were invited inside, whereupon I was grilled as to my motives for taking photographs at a school where young children were scampering in the playground
In my defence, my father said that it was not against the law to take photographs and was told that, whilst that may be true, we were to understand that the Police had concerns in this day and age of attacks upon children
I know Stockton Heath Police have a reputation for being aggressive but apparently Manchester is even worse
The whole farago was embarassing and stupidly heavy-handed and OTT

Is paedophilia so very rampant from casual members of the public ? - not according to the statistics, so why are members of the public now being clumsily profiled and pro-actively cautioned using this kind of brainless Police activity
I think in Arthur's case It's certainly enough to raise anyone's hackles and I don't think it is acceptable for the Police to be impolite and courteous
Even if you quite like children generally it doesn't mean you are going to overstep the normal boundaries and become weird enough to do whatever depraved things that paedophiles do to them ??
Or are Police stupid enough to think most paedophiles are really just loitering in public and hoping to grab kids at random, I thought most spent some time in close proximity and were known well to them through family or friendship, are not abductions without warning the rare exception rather than the rule ??
Poor Arthur, don't let the [censored] grind you down !! :-\ :-\ :-\

arthurchappell

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #10 on: 22:13:46, 22/08/07 »
Cheers Rab - mych apppreciated - it is all down to hysteria and trying to be seen policing - scary to think where it could all end
Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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celeste

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #11 on: 22:17:43, 22/08/07 »
If the police feel justified in taking action in this outrageous way, why don't they put notices round the area, warning people or men not to stay longer than five minutes, and to eat their lunches whilst making sure they are looking upwards to the sky, or perhaps with blindfolds
All that's necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

RAB

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #12 on: 22:40:52, 22/08/07 »
It is a sort of hysteria, but the kind you only expect to see acted out in Sci-Fi films, set in a sterile future of imaginary bleakness and warped mind-control of some sort  ::)

RAB

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #13 on: 00:23:31, 23/08/07 »
I don't like the Police targetting individuals before a crime has even  been committed, based mainly on 'profile' as a potential indicator of criminality
It's no better than when you are doing 'Jury Service' and you decide to condemn someone purely on the basis of their appearance .......you might be right, but you might equally be wrong in your predjudice  ???

This mentality might lead to charging suspects as being guilty until proven innocent  ::)

arthurchappell

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Re: police stop and search activity in manchester
« Reply #14 on: 07:31:53, 23/08/07 »
I don't like the Police targetting individuals before a crime has even  been committed, based mainly on 'profile' as a potential indicator of criminality
It's no better than when you are doing 'Jury Service' and you decide to condemn someone purely on the basis of their appearance .......you might be right, but you might equally be wrong in your predjudice  ???

This mentality might lead to charging suspects as being guilty until proven innocent  ::)

they seem to base their action purely on suspicion - they are encouraging people to fear everyone round themselves and tell stories - there is some irony in using cctv to watch for voyeurs and even then they get the information wrong  or just go on a blanket rampage through the whole single male population of the area. Accusing me of using a camera i didn't have told me how much of what they were spouting was pure bluff  -  but they want suspicion alone to speak volumes - heaven help anyone who does get pulled up who has taken a few photos, even in all innocense - after all, the fountain here is designed to catch people out - the water comes on and goes off in irratic patterns - a lot of people take photos and film people using them because they think its funny - not because they want to peddle the images as some kind of porn. The stop-search rules are supposed to be a terrorism deterant - but the system is just being used for anything and everything casually throwing 'child-watching' accusatiions in the face of somene in a public park in this way seems grossly insensitive. I feel angry and even violated by it - others could well feel depressed by it - being in the vicinity is not a crime - had I ben talking to kids, offering them sweets, playing with myself, there might have been grounds for concern, but just being in the area is no grounds for any concern whatsoever. To the police however, fear and suspicion suffices - they are exploiting paranoia - people who are a real threat are likely to handle it better than unsuspecting innocent people who are getting pulled up for nothing.
Arthur Chappell, writer,  Civil War Re-enactor, ex-cult member, socialite  http://arthurchappell.me.uk/

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