Is Manchester a city divided by race and religion Muslim vs Christian

[Davidbowie]

Can't help but notice Manchester is now being split on race and religious lines.
For example longsight has a majority of Asians and the area has more mosques than churches.
The old schools like st Joseph rc have long been bulldozed in longsight as the majority of residents are not Christians or catholits.
This is happening all over Manchester levenshulme now has a huge number of eastern Europeans from Romania.

Where are the old English people who lived here for generations moving to?

Is Manchester now a foreign city with in England?

How long can Manchester sustain the influx of Muslims before tensions rise and we have an oldham type situation?

Is the council policy helping the residents of Manchester be part of a wide community or are they helping by keeping people divided?

[Cupcake]

Churches are being demolished because English people no longer go there.  Going to Church is no longer an automatic thing on Sundays, and many people don't even go at Christmas.  It's nothing to do with ethnic diversity, because they are not being replaced with alternative religious venues.  It's the Churches selling off buildings and land that no longer generate income from worshippers but can make a million or two being sold to developers as prime building sites.
 
Manchester has long had areas where ethnic or other minority culture flourishes, and it's never caused any serious bother because most people don't go round pointing at people who are different.  We have a thriving gay scene, a "curry mile" that's the envy of the world, a strong Jewish community, a Chinese community right in the heart of things.....all of whom are seamlessly integrated into the city as a whole.   I see no reason why Muslims or Europeans shouldn't be welcomed and included in the same way. 
 

[Davidbowie]

Good reply cupcake and I see your points have merit , however do you not consider that one of the so called minority is now becoming the majority?
If history tells us anything is that nothing ever stays the same forever .
Or as they say shift happens...

But I truly feel that all the minoritys you pointed out  Jew , gay and European are being overwhelmed by the Muslim Asian community?

Am I racist for pointing this out? No I don't
Think so I'm just pointing out that Manchester is only 10 years from becoming some sort of Muslim enclave within England .
Any population that comes should be able to intermingle with the local population but that is not happening . Muslim Asians are separating themselves from the rest of the community and marrying into there own community.
This can only be a recipe for disater for the future!

[Cupcake]

The Muslim population of England and Wales is below 3% and evenly spread in geographical terms.  In Scotland, Muslims represent less than 1% of the population.  Overall, the Muslim population is currently around 2.5%. 
 
Look it up on the website of the Office of National Statistics, and at the last census in 2001, 92.1% of the 58million  people living in the UK were White British. 
 
At that time, there were 261000 Bangladeshi Muslims and 307000 Sikhs and 471000 Hindus and 686000 Pakistani Muslims.  The Asian minorities added together accounted for 4%, and other minorities for 3.9%. 
 
So Muslims of both nationalities accounted for just about a quarter of the 7.9% total - or 2% of the population as a whole.  In ten years, that has moved by half a percent to the current 2.5%.  Those are the facts.  There has been a small increase in the Muslim population, partly accounted for by the fact that people who came here have settled and raised children.         
 
Do I think you're a racist?  Not a clue.  I just don't like people marching up to me and insisting that I take their word for something without the slightest proof.  There are the facts for you.  Muslims are not a majority of anything, anywhere.  It's a fairy tale, and a nasty, inflammatory one at that.
 
 

[Davidbowie]

 
That's a very strange reply from you cupcake.
For some reason you decided to answer my post with facts and figures about the united kingdom.

why don't you talk about Manchester in facts and figures rather than your misleading figures you posted on here?

Now then I gave a clue in the header it says Manchester is becoming divided on racial and religious grounds , I never mentioned the rest of the uk.

Now if we stick to the subject I can 100 percent prove that longsight is now a area of Manchester that has become the home to more Asians Muslims  than any other race or religion.
Here's the stats from the last 2001 census in sure the numbers have increased since then

 52.7% of the population is from non-white ethnic background
24.6% Pakistani, 7.2% Bangladeshi), and 9.1% Black
white people are of Irish descent and the current Irish population stands at 4.3%

Now even from the 2001 census you can clearly see that longsight if the trend continues will be a Muslim enclave within 20 years.
If the trend continues in Manchesters other suburbs Asian Muslims will be the majority
And just to add to this point how many Muslim councilors are there on Manchester city council at the moment

[Cupcake]

52.7% of the population is from non-white ethnic background
24.6% Pakistani, 7.2% Bangladeshi), and 9.1% Black
white people are of Irish descent and the current Irish population stands at 4.3%

And just to add to this point how many Muslim councilors are there on Manchester city council at the moment

Well, according to your posts, the entire Council ought to be Muslim, otherwise they are severely under-represented.  Actually, the figures YOU quote are misleading.  They are the categories by which people define themselves in terms of ethnic origin.  There is nothing about religion in that table of the document you Googled up - which is MCC's analysis of the census information for Longsight, if anyone wants to check - to say that any of the people from Pakistan are actually Muslims.  You're assuming.  How many are actually Christians who left because they fear the Taliban? Do we have any Sikhs in your count at all?  Or Hindus?  And how many of the people who filled in the 2001 census were actually part of the student population - because Longsight is about 50% student, isn't it?  Meaning a higher level of diversity, because Universities encourage overseas students who pay higher fees....... but it suits you to ignore all of that, doesn't it? 
 
Just as you ignore the fact that in counting the Muslim population of Manchester or the UK, we also count in people who are actually white and British, but who have chosen to convert and are therefore not even immigrants....
 
The reason I replied in terms of the UK was simply that I didn't have any figures for the number of Muslims in Manchester - and neither did you. The difference between us is that I don't make up or misrepresent statistics to suit my biased point of view. 
 
But let's cut to the chase, shall we?  I'm tired of trying to be polite to a newbie who clearly has no manners and is out to pick fights.  What is wrong with Muslims in your view?  Why are you so upset about an increase in numbers?  Do you think we are all going to join you in some crusade if we learn that there's a Muslim community of significant size in Longsight?  People are people, and it doesn't matter where they pray or what colour their skin might happen to be.  If there's a Muslim community in Longsight making themselves at home and contributing to the economy of Manchester, then as far as I am concerned, they are very welcome and frankly, I'd rather focus on the growing numbers of people like you who think that saying we should all fear ethnic minorities ISN'T racism.  It is.  And on this Forum, we don't do it.
 
And I'm sure you're wondering by now, so I'll save you asking.  I am White, British, born in Manchester of parents born in Manchester. I did have an Irish great granny. I am not married to, or affiliated with, any person of any other ethnic origin in any way except by random business acquaintance or social preference. 
 
 

[Davidbowie]

a fantastic reply cup cake from your self
i shall deal with your points that stand out first


1 my problem with muslims...well none i am one ... that is  correct im an asian muslim my father is from India where the same thing happened there hindus , seeks, muslims all got on then came a huge population rise in muslims then tension and then the creation of 3 states in one. bangaldesh pakistan and india not to mention  kashmir ...and the war thats gone on there since


2 the fear of an ethnic minority ...thats the whole point of my post muslims are no longer going to be the minority and if you look at places around the world where ex pat indian populations become established you will se civil wars for example fiji .


a small island where the indian population grew so large by out breeding the local inhabitants they became the ruling class then in the late 90s fiji entred into a civil war look it up...
the last country only a few months ago to come out of civil war was north and south sudan the country is doing an india and becoming to states where muslims and non muslims live apart.


so i can say with out prejudice that as far as i am concerned the bosnia , serbian wars where muslims were in the mid 90s put into concentration camps and eradicated could happen here.
think im being over the top what do you think groups like the EDL would do or the BNP if they ever got to a position  where they could influence society?


so heres my stance if manchester continues to grow a muslim community at the current growth rates with in the next decade we will be in a oldham type situation.


by the way the answer to the how many muslims are now on the council is 9 asian and 3 white muslims.
however if you got to pakistan and look at how many non muslims are in any sort of role of power you will find the answer to be one and that the protection of the tribes of non muslims who were the origanl inhabitants of pakistan before it was carved up!








 

[Cupcake]

Thank you for your kind words - I live for your approval.  I'm delighted to hear you are a Muslim.  I was convinced you were a member of the BNP looking to recruit on here.....
 
Down to business:
 
There are fewer than a million people on Fiji even today - that's a small enough population back then to be affected.  If you were concerned about the Isle of Wight being overwhelmed by migration, I might pause to wonder if you were right.... although having been to the IOW, I can't see anyone rushing to live there. 
 
Nor is India a comparable situation.  Two things promote violence in India, and for that matter in Palestine.  One is the arguing over sacred sites, and the other is the FORCED creation of artificial territories.  Nobody is being forcibly removed from Longsight, nobody is being told where they have to live.  And unless I've really missed something, there's no major religious site of traditional worship in Manchester that's being ring-fenced to exclude people.   
 
You know what really causes things like the problems in Oldham?  People pointing out that there MIGHT be a problem. People on both sides of the fence predicting doom and disaster.  Folk get frightened, then there's no interaction, so there's no understanding, then there's misunderstanding, then mistrust, and suddenly it's "them and us" and after that it takes one stupid incident to blow the place up completely.  Oldham has settled, and as far as I know, there was no massive evacuation of any particular ethnic group. Go to Bolton instead and look at the brilliant way everyone gets along.
 
Over in Bosnia, you're on yet another issue - Muslims were a minority and in a time of instability, as often happens, they became a focus for blame and hatred by the majority.  Same as Jews in Germany.   
 
This is England.  We don't really have civil unrest or revolutions as a rule.  There is still a law in Chester that says you can legally shoot a Welshman if he's out after dark, as long as you do it with a bow and arrow, but honestly, that's the ONLY bit of organised minority oppression we still permit.... and with the glorious benefit system we have, there's not likely to be an uprising of starving peasants demanding ethnic cleansing any time soon.
 
There are simply none of the motivators that were present at the events you cite.  Mancunians don't actually much care where you were born as long as you can cook!
 
By and large, I don't think you really need to worry about anything except the fact that your comments sound like those of Nick Griffin & co and will have delighted any passing racists beyond measure.

[atmosferik]

I feel REALLY sorry for Muslim's throughout the United Kingdom.


Since 9/11 the entire Muslim population has suffered throughout cities in the Western world including Manchester and Liverpool. Many white English people living in Manchester and Liverpool watch the news and have a fear of ethnic minorities given that such negative press is fired towards them on a daily basis.


The reality is VERY different, with most Muslims being decent, caring, loving and hard working people.


It only takes a few idiots (9/11, London bombings, The Talbian et al) to ruin it for those who are happy to live in a FREE society and live with the benefits of such a great, strong and care free society such as ours.


Everyone seems to hate America, except the English. I love them to be honest, they are some of the nicest, friendliest people you'll ever meet. If you are a female Muslim and dress freely, you'll have the LIONS share of western men wanting to marry you and make you happy.


Life is for living. No one knows what happens when you die... Its all guess work. Live life, enjoy it and you may go to heaven (If it exists). If you are nice and put everyone before you, it may well happen...


That's my philosophy anyway... Praising a God whilst I'm here is nonsense... Think I'll just be polite and nice to everyone... That's how I like to be treated and that's how most people treat me.


When I die, I think God (If he exists), will look at me favourably to the bloke who chanted Gods name whilst flying his plane into a building killing thousands of innocent people 10 years ago...


For those people who believe in God (In the REAL world) however, fair play to you all. Like MOST Muslims, Christians, Hindus etc you are caring, loving people who should get the respect of those of us who aren't religious in any way. Lets all just love each other as much as possible and hopefully we'll all be at the best party ever when we die!!!

Tom. X.


 

[Davidbowie]

Sad news from norway 91 dead and the number is rising over 50 injured.
All in the name of religion.
Surprising Norway is known as one of the most liberal places on earth .
They have a much lower percentage of immigrants per head of population than the u.k.

So the murderer would he have joined the bnp or the EDL if he were born
In the u.k.?

[Cupcake]

He wouldn't join anything.  This isn't about religion or immigration.  This is about one man who thinks that he should be allowed to run things as he sees fit.  Whatever that means.  Today, he wants a ban on immigrants - tomorrow it might be abortion or Coca Cola.  He thinks we should all ask his permission to breathe.  No way would he ever be interested in listening to someone else's point of view or abiding by the rules.
 
He didn't select Muslim kids.  He didn't bomb a Mosque.  He blew up Norwegian office workers and shot teenagers of all faiths at random.  He does not think he is doing God's work.  He did not run away or kill himself.  He set a bomb and massacred teenagers to draw attention to himself, so he could reach the widest possible audience with his views.  His lawyer states that he wants a social change and saw these actions as gruesome but necessary to start the ball rolling.  He's a perfectly ordinary egomaniac sociopath. 
 
He thinks he will now rally people to his personal crusade. Instead, Muslims in Norway went into Christian Churches to pay respects and mourn together, and they were welcomed.  I do hope someone's told him about that.  I hope they organise a massive, multicultural event in Norway to promote healing and understanding and I hope they play footage of it in his cell day and night.
 
 

[Davidbowie]

I doubt it , I think he believed passionately about his cause the planning and preparation that went into it was not done by some one on a whim.

He's managed to do excatly what he wanted .

He will be given the oxygen of publicity world wide like it or not that is his goal that's not the actions of a person who Is deluded or mad.

He's ruthless and has brought attention to his agenda.

I just hope there is no one else especially here willing to sacrifice them selves for such stupidity.

Now getting back to my original topic is Manchester divided I hope not.

[Cupcake]

I doubt it , I think he believed passionately about his cause the planning and preparation that went into it was not done by some one on a whim.

Yes, but his cause was nothing more or less than his own entirely personal set of beliefs.  He wants society restructured to his master plan.  That's not religion, it's plain old megalomania.
 
And no, Manchester is not divided, except on the subject of football teams; and even there we are united (no pun intended) in our deep-rooted hatred of Scousers.  As long as Liverpool stands, no ethnic Mancunian minority need fear.       

[Davidbowie]

It was a religious divide that caused this to happen , he never did it over something as frivolous as football .
If you look at Wikipedia Oslo has in the last few years had mass unchecked Islamic imagration.
25 percent of  the population is Muslim and that has only happened in the last few years.
A quater  of the city has had a culture placed upon it that it never voted for or asked for.
Now I'm not blaming Muslims for wanting a better life in a better place, however such an influx of people unchecked will cause problems.
when the Brits went on a rampage in india and other country's they were soon thrown out in no time once the local population realized they were robbing the resources of the country's blind.

[Cupcake]

Oh for goodness sake!  You've made your point - and you only seem to have the one.  We are all aware now that you think every single non-Muslim person in the world is inevitably going to wake up one morning hating Muslims and violence will follow.  We've all grasped your personal hatred of multiculturalism - loud and clear.  You've told us that Muslim immigration wrecks school standards, lowers house prices and has caused everything from the Napoleonic Wars to nosebleeds!  Now, do you have anything ELSE to chat about, cos this is getting really, really boring?
 
And FYI, the reason for two Manchester teams was religion.  Catholics and Protestants..... so yes, if you must have it so, Manchester is, and has always been, a city divided by religion, and it's never bothered any of us much or caused much friction.   We've always just ignored the occasional stirrer.......