Yuppies/posh people in Manchester

[Cupcake]

The other thing I believe is that if you behave badly, the only person who really has to live with it is you.  If you go round being horrible to people, I don't see how you can be happy.  Maybe I am odd.  If I have done something that's upset somebody, then I am uncomfortable until I put it right.   I feel bad enough if I make a mistake or upset someone by accident, so how it must feel to wake up in a morning and remember doing something lousy on purpose, I have no idea.  Don't want to find out either! 
 

[Mini]

Sheila, I couldn't agree with you more!    Seems a lot of other people these days just disregard that sentiment, and I'm not just talking about 'posh' people or the type of people this thread was originally started over, but by all kinds of people really.
 
I was brought up with a very strict set of morals and conduct and it's done me no harm at all. I am bringing my little 'un up the same way, and often have other parents comment how lovely and polite she is, and how easy she is to have over for play dates with her friends. I am really instilling in her that manners really do cost nothing and can go so far in helping make life easier. She totally gets it bless her, when she reaches 13 that may be a whole other ball game LOL!!


Cupcake, again I couldn't agree more! The last part you wrote about upsetting someone and it making you feel bad, I could easily have typed that about myself! I get into real knots sometimes if I replay a conversation, and then wonder if a certain phrase could have been misunderstood, and until I get to see the person to set it right, I am pretty much a nervy wreck until I have got it off my chest and set it straight! I couldn't imagine being horrible to someone on purpose and having no conscience over it, its just not in my wiring!


The Little Prince, I'm sure that I have a copy of that somewhere, unread obviously or I would have recognized the quote!

[Cupcake]

Dunno, Mini, I only ever read the book in French and that's my own translation..... so it may be differently worded in your version if it's English?
 
I like being nice.  I know that half the time when I give people the benefit of the doubt, I'm wrong and they did mean to be nasty -  but Lord it makes my world a nicer place to think the best of people until they prove me wrong!   
 
I was thinking though that we must have the herding instinct in us, or we'd not find cliques so horrible?  I mean, if we think that excluding someone because they have the wrong postcode is a nasty thing to do, then at some level we are recognising the basic need for inclusion, aren't we?  I can't say it's ever bothered me to BE left out of a group, but I definitely don't like to SEE it done to others.......  
 
 

[Mini]

Lol, Cupcake you are in a state of grace at the moment as I have never read it in either language, so I am more than happy to take your translation, its a lovely quote as it is, so I am happy to always let it stay that way with no further investigation necessary 


As for the natural herding instinct, I  agree its all within us to a lesser or greater degree. I think people approach cliques sometimes with the dear need to be 'part of something', or merely 'to belong', some may be desperate enough emotionally they are willing to hang in there until acceptance comes around. Some others just think 'stuff this for a game of soldiers I'm off' and really don't feel the need to want to bother.


I think its all kinds of things that motivate cliques and groups, loneliness, insecurity, displacement due to a new area etc, all of which you mentioned before. Nothing wrong with needing to belong, its a very comforting feeling, knowing people like you and like being with you.
I have a group of mums I stand with sometimes and I am happy to say they will talk or happily chat to anyone regardless. I guess I belong to that group, although as a group its very relaxed, sometimes we walk in together,sometimes only see each other fleetingly in passing and only manage a quick 'hi!', or not at all if the timing is off. Yet no-one feels aggrieved or shunned. Its just life and how it goes at times. I don't kind of consider it a clique as such, because anyone who is stood by adds a word or two to whatever is being said, they are then promptly included in the rest of the conversation if they so wish. Not at all how I have witnessed some of the other cliques of mums behave. They seem to veiw 'outsiders' the way a herd of deer watch a wolf making a pass by.


I won't purposely exclude someone if they are from the 'wrong side of town' type thing, I have been witness to those who do have that postcode snobbery, and as much as its amusing in its alien concept, it is actually pretty nasty in reality, I'd so hate to be like that and fall into the realms of being regarded as that shallow.


I don't know, its a very complex and emotive subject isn't it? I know I have been 'selective' who I spend my time with, and now I think back on it with a different take....was I excluding someone who needed something? I'd never be outright nasty or ignorant to anyone, but I do tend to keep a low profile with people I think either I won't like, or won't like me. In retrospect, did I not give them enough of a chance? Hmmm, bit of food for thought for me there I think.

[sheilanz]

Something Mini said struck,   she evidentally goes and meets her children from School......Beleive it or not but after the first
day starting I never took or collected my kids,they walked
2miles there and back from the age of 5.when they got older
and changed schools they went by bike, cant see me trundling
along on a bike or skates for that matter.
OF COURSE    I am going back a few years with them,yet it
is almost the same here most kiddies unless in a very busy
area go to and fro on their own or in groups nattering..
Some Primary children do get met according to if they have
big roads to cross..No danger of being abducted years ago,
traffic always stopped for school crossings and kidsd even
looked after themselves.
Thats another thing ( here I go again)...whats this about
Play Dates,. dont the kids just go to their mates without an
an invitation..............oh for the G O O D old days..
 
See thats the old gal again with her memories

[Cupcake]

Everyone walked then, Sheila, and every house had a lady in it to keep an eye on kids.  Even when I was a kid that was pretty much true.  Now, everyone's in cars, everyone's in work, roads are deadly, homes are empty all day, school starts at half eight and a lot of parents need to leave kids somewhere at seven beause they have to get to work.  Life was a lot simpler, wasn't it?
 
Mini, I doubt you've damaged anyone!    It's not easy if you think you're going to get a hostile response.  I get it a lot in work situations, because I'm often called in to clean up messes or run things staff can't.  Often, people are defensive because it's their mess, and every now and then someone has a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp because they think they should be in charge.  I am entitled to come in and hand out instructions, but I tend to turn up with cakes and start with a chatty meeting so everyone can have a say.  Partly because it reassures everyone that I'm not going to blame or belittle anyone..... and partly because it's very difficult to argue with me when their mouths are full of muffin!    

[Mini]

Sheila, that's so true. I do walk her both ways, as a youngster at her age, I either went by myself or tagged along with other kids who were at my school, I think my mum went with me once and that was it. I had to cross a fairly main road, but I don't remember it being that busy in truth.
I have started dropping my little 'un at the gates and she goes the rest of the way herself, she loves the independence, but as for the the rest of the journey I wouldn't dare let her do it herself yet, as Cupcake says, there are so many cars, and its deadly, they seem to hare about with no regard for the fact there is school really close by and lots of really young kids. Life really did seem simpler back in the day. In total honesty, if I wasn't worried about cars, or the risk of her getting snatched, I'd love her to go by herself, I think that first step away from mum, and gaining your independence is so important.


Cupcake, I was in a managerial position a while ago and I totally get where you are coming from. I found when I was clearing up other peoples messes the defensive aggressive behaviour one of the most sensitive to undo without getting caught in the cross fire. Often people didn't want to admit they had dropped the ball over something, everyone likes to appear professional at all times, when in reality nothing could be further from the truth, its just when and how things get picked up and sorted before they get to meltdown stage (I worked in retail, and clients can be really unforgiving of mistakes at times, hence staff going into meltdown over mistakes that in the great scheme of things, weren't life and death. It just may have meant someone had to wait for an item a little longer than originally quoted, annoying but not fatal)
I wish I had thought of the cupcake idea, all that extra sugar to get the feel good hormones flowing! Brilliant and thoughtful, I love it!

[Mini]

Oh Sheila, I forgot to answer this bit, about the play dates. Never existed in my day either. We just hung about in a bunch outside messing around, or called on mates to see what they were doing if it was crappy weather and no-one was out....this whole play date thing is a totally new one on me. But I guess where I lived back then had a huge part to play, we lived on an avenue, hardly any cars came up and down it so we all roamed about on bikes etc until it was time to go in. Generally playing about unsupervised, but with house's all round us. Often till it went dark too.


God, I even remember at a bout 6/7 years old, going out all day looking for horses, swings, ponds, frogs...you name it. I don't think I saw my mum from one end of the day to the next when it was the summer holidays, and no-one panicked about it either. I sometimes got home when it was going dark, mum seemed only bothered that I probably hadn't eaten all day.


Life has changed so much.

[Cupcake]

Dunno about thoughtful, Mini, but definitely productive.  I have made a great deal of money and a lot of friends by walking in, saying hello and putting the kettle on.  Disarms anyone who's already decided I'll be Hitler in knickers; reassures anyone who thinks I'm going to push them down the pecking order; saves me a load of hassle; means I get repeat business to work with people who already know how I do things and like it.  Win-win-win!   
 
I just count myself lucky to lack the wiring for it all.   All that schoolyard angst over  "if you play with them, you can't play with us"  passed me right by.  My response was always "Oh, OK then" and I'd go right on talking to everyone.  If they then chose to ignore me, that was their right and I respected it, but didn't really give it much thought.  I'm still pretty much the same.  If someone doesn't want to talk to me because I say hello to the "wrong" mothers at the school gate, so be it.   I'll be too busy having a laugh with the nice folk to care much, and when they get over their daft ideas, they're welcome to join in, because it's not my way to play tit for tat.
 
 

[Mini]

Best way forward in my opinion. Nothing better than sitting down with a brew and being civilized...of course cake always helps, such a lovely way to disarm a potentially tense situation, when really there is no need.


I found that after the fact, the staff I had been called in to assist were almost on the brink of tears at times. Fearing the worst the poor sods had wound themselves up to be thinking they'd be sat in a tribunal or something equally awful. Wish I had thought of the cake idea, as much as a sweetener, it can be the most magical comforter too!


Its so funny, reading what you put. I remember being much like that as a kid. Quite content to just do whatever without really taking on the shackles that others tried to impose with emotional blackmail. I don't hold truck with it now, but I do get very bothered about how people can treat each other without a second thought. Coming back to the ignorance over the greeting and hello thing.


If someone said hello and smiled at me, I'd feel such a pig ignoring them for no other reason than I didn't know them....I'm not on about just any random person any old place lol! But moreover the same face you see everyday twice a day, I don't get that kind of ignorance? Chatting here with you though has just replaced the sadness over it, with a resolve to ignore it. I'm not unapproachable or unfriendly so I am secure I would never do the same to anyone else who extended that kind of friendly greeting. I just have to take on the mantle, 'its not my bad, I shouldn't get dragged down by it', and leave the snotty mums to enjoy each others company. I'm sure they don't give me a second thought other than 'she's there again, look away before she can get chance to say hello or something'.


Ah well, you can try to be nice, but if the other people don't want to know. The old saying 'you can lead a horse to water' etc.


Oddly enough, I think I am bearing witness to that 'if you play with them, you can't play with us' only in a more subtle form. If I take a different approach, its actually quite interesting to witness. I'll look at the school runs with different eyes now LOL!!

[Cupcake]

Dunno about your lot, but our lot definitely live by "either you're in our gang or you stink" when they're at the school gates or together anywhere else.  I can get blanked in various lunch venues too if I want.  I can't imagine ever being so desperate for approval that I'd be frightened to say hello to someone.  But then, I have never felt the need to try and force people to pay attention to me either.  All my friends are free to talk to anyone they like - even if I don't like their choices! 
 
You can always play down and dirty.  When I realised what things were like, I helped my sister organise a fabulous birthday party for my nephew. Told him weeks before all about how great it was going to be.  Hottest ticket in town, all the kids wanting to be invited.  Not expensive, I hasten to add, but a lot of thought and work to make it a madhouse on the day. Sneaky, but terribly effective! 
 
I dare you to turn up at the gates one afternoon with fairy cakes for everyone's kids!       
 
 
 

[Mini]

Hahahaa!! I think that's the general modus operandi here too! Hmm, maybe they don't like my perfume? 


Its all [censored] really isn't it?


I'll bear in mind the party thing, although, me being me, last time I had a party for pipsqueak, I did it in a church hall, did our own food, got a lass in to do games and stuff so it wasn't eye wateringly expensive, and that way pipsqueak could invite everyone from her class, regardless of how the mums treated me. I thought I wouldn't sully my childs view with that nonsense, and be the better person for rising above all that crap. Only to find a few weeks after, that one of the mums threw a party for her child, and yep, you guessed it, my little pipsqueak wasn't invited.


At least I know exactly where I stand, and next time the invite list pipsqueak gives out will be markedly smaller. Less spent on other kids means a far more exciting party if you do get invited doesn't it? 

[Cupcake]

Oh yeah, completely [censored].  Whether you're a yuppie in Manchester or a mother at the school gates, nothing good is going to come of isolating yourself and looking down on people as inferior.  All you do is trap yourself in a little group where nobody can ever actually be themselves.   

[Cupcake]

Mini, I thought of you this morning, cos this'll make you laugh.  I went into the petshop this morning and two of the school mums were in there, with a dog - not sure whose.  Course, my daft spaniel rushes up wagging like mad, but not only do they blank me when I greet them, they ignore him and won't even let their dog sniff mine.  The two nice ladies who work in there were very indignant after they'd gone.  My dog got a biscuit on the spot and a big fuss, and I got a bit of discount too.      

[Mini]

Hahahaha!! OMG...really? Actually I don't know why I am surprised, they were probably cursing the dog for not being more selective in its sniffing choices, and adhering to the correct sniffy attitude!


Glad your pup got a biccie and you got some discount tho! Just shows, you can be as posh and superior as you like but when it comes to animals, they couldn't give a hoot.


I bet those two ladies with the dog would be horrified to learn that their behavior was considered 'low rent' and ignorant, instead of the intended aloof and somehow classy vibe they were intending to project. Who cares?! Lol, what matters is you were treated well and your dog got a treat off ladies who can tell good manners when they see them, thats classy for you.