Author Topic: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.  (Read 30449 times)

St Chads Lad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6767
Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #45 on: 13:36:39, 01/10/19 »
Kick up the bottom from the IRA? So are we to assume Salman Abedi contributed to improvements at the Arena, if we follow that logic?  :-\
 

Phil the Mill

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #46 on: 14:59:05, 01/10/19 »
Mmm. "It is a fact that Sibson was a paedophile. We all knew it. We all knew his latest squeeze. We all took steps to avoid placing ourselves in a position of risk. Although we talked to each other about his behaviour, we never told our parents and/or members of staff."


Easy enough to throw mud when the fellow's been dead for years. I'd have thought that in these days of 'fake news' (nothing new about that of course), and with a good education behind us, we might have done better than to say 'We all knew it'. Come on 'Blackley Boy'! Put your own personal story down, if you have one. I've told my story and in 8 years at NMGS I never heard anyone say Sibson had done anything of a sexual nature to them. Somewhat sadistic, perhaps, but in those days that was acceptable. Too many people in recent years have been falsely accused of sexual misdemeanours - I'm remembering Paul Gambaccini and Clif Richard, plus Neymar (and there were other footballers too). Not really fair, I'd say.

Also, in my last year at NMGS I can immediately think of at least three Jewish Prefects (by name, and I rather think four). That'd be about a representative percentage of the 6th Form population. So, paedophile and antisemitic. Anything else you'd like to throw in?  ::)
« Last Edit: 15:53:19, 01/10/19 by Phil the Mill »

PhilPlatts

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #47 on: 11:33:32, 20/02/20 »
I haven't checked this site for a long time because there have been very few posts over the years. But replying to Phil the Mill's post, I do not agree with everything in Blackley Boy's post, to which he is responding. I saw no evidence that Sibson was anti-semitic, for instance, if that is the implication.

However, if you never heard one person in 8 years there say that Sibson had done something of a sexual nature to them, then all I can say is you must have walked around with your ears and eyes closed. You ask Blackley Boy to 'put your own personal story down'. Well, a couple of points. In this world, there are plenty of people who have been abused who choose not to share the details. That is their right. It doesn't mean they cannot state that they have been sexually abused just because they are unwilling to go into detail in a public forum. Nor does it mean they cannot state, in good faith, what they had been told was happening to others. That is precisely why the likes of Savile and others got away with it. Yes, Sibson is dead, but would you rather no one had talked about what Savile was doing, because he too is dead?

Further, if you care to scroll back through the whole thread, there have been several who have been willing to 'put their story down'.

I was one of the (probably majority of) lucky ones. I was not abused by Sibson. But I did have several friends at NMGS who recounted what he did in detail, so maybe I'll 'put their story down' for them. What is the definition of sexual abuse? 'Somewhat sadistic' you appear to agree Sibson was, but that alone is not sexual abuse. But asking a boy to pull down his trousers after a beating to assess the damage, putting his hand on their backsides when doing it? Well that sounds like some kind of sexual abuse to me. But if your retort is that I am not in a position to say that because it didn't happen to me personally, well, I'd suggest you read the court transcript from the Stuart Hall trial. Hall was convicted because so many victims not connected with each other told similar stories.

We were in different times then. Boys who alleged they had had this kind of thing done to them by Sibson tended to laugh it off. As Blackley Boy said, they just kept out of his way afterwards. They were unlikely to be believed in the environment of an old fashioned Grammar School decades before the high profile cases were reported, and to my knowledge none of them reported their experience to anyone in a senior position. Sibson was the headmaster. To whom would they have gone? And no one else, yes, including me, was going to report on hearsay and throw away their school career if the actual victims were not prepared to come forward themselves.

So I would conclude that having heard similar stories from several fellow pupils in different years and different classes, that is less 'fake news' than to contend he was innocent just because no one told you. By all means reserve your judgment but please don't denigrate those who remember how they needed to conduct themselves with the man as Blackley Boy has done. Rather, read the testimony of others.
« Last Edit: 11:38:00, 20/02/20 by PhilPlatts »

Jedstone

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #48 on: 19:46:58, 13/03/21 »
I attended NMGS between 1963 and 1968. I’m trying to get hold of the words of the school hymn. Can anyone help?

PhilPlatts

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #49 on: 22:37:41, 13/03/21 »
Think I remember you. Pretty sure your surname is Stone but maybe Jed was a nickname? Your years there were much the same as mine, 63-69.
There is now a Facebook group for NMGS & I will connect you. Personally I don't even remember the school hymn. Do you recall any of the words at all, to jog my memory?
Regards.
Phil

PhilPlatts

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #50 on: 22:42:10, 13/03/21 »
I'm no expert on this but this is a link, you might need to have a Facebook account. Post again if it doesn't work and I'll get you an email address.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/387798554663557/?multi_permalinks=3603041116472602%2C3600593783384002%2C3595192483924132%2C3602432023200178%2C3600627086714005&notif_id=1615199197070926&notif_t=group_activity&ref=notif

Phil the Mill

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #51 on: 12:07:19, 14/03/21 »
For Jedstone: Here are the (antiquated) words to 'In Veritate Fortis' - a thing of beauty (perhaps) iin its time:



In Veritate Fortis (Strong in the Truth)
words by T. A. C. Crossley, music by P. Penrose


Guard thou mine eyes, O Lord, that they may see
In every lovely thing a sign of Thee;
Guard thou my lips that they may only move
To words of courage, manliness and love.


Guard thou my feet that they may never stray
And keep them firmly on the great highway;
Guard thou my hands, O Lord, that all they do
May keep me faithful and to honour true.


Guard thou my thoughts, for from within me springs
The pleading whisper of unworthy things;
Guard me, O Lord, that I may offer thee
My strength and love when manhood comes to me.


Guard thou our school, O Lord, that all the way
We play the game as thou woulds’t have us play,
Strong in the Truth as thou woulds’t have us be,
And striving to reach they perfect victory.

PhilPlatts

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #52 on: 14:46:37, 14/03/21 »
Well done Phil. I have no recollection of this at all! Both of you fellas would be welcome on the Facebook forum though (per the link I've posted) which is far more active than this site. Anyway, answering Jedstone's post got me a promotion! I'm no longer a Newbie but a Junior Member. I love the idea of still being a junior anything...

If Jedstone comes back I'd love to learn his first name. I'm guessing Raymond but could be completely wrong!

Jedstone

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #53 on: 15:02:21, 15/03/21 »
Thanks for the quick replies. I don't use Facebook normally but I'll make an exception for this information.

The name you will remember me by (if you do at all) is David Johnston, although I was fairly widely known as Jed throughout my school years.  I changed my name many years ago to Jed Stone (it's a long story and not at all sinister).

I'm not sure why I wanted the words of the school hymn, except that it had been troubling me recently. But thanks for posting it.

I've read the posts on this forum and am sorry to hear of some of the experiences of my contemporaries. I probably had similar but fortunately I don't remember back that well. I was also a working class boy and I am eternally grateful to some of the great teachers we had — 'Shoddy' Thompson was my form master and helped me a lot. Joining the year late in about Feb 1964 I found it difficult at first to catch up, having come from a less talented Welsh Grammar school in the back of beyond.

If anyone is interested I have the school year photograph from 1968, which shows all the people you've been talking about. I can pick out most of them. Is it worth scanning and putting up on Facebook. Slater was the Head at the time and Shoddy can be seen beaming on the front row.
Thank you and best wishes to you all. Like me you must be getting a bit slower and creakier !

PhilPlatts

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: North Manchester Grammar School For Boys.
« Reply #54 on: 16:19:39, 15/03/21 »
Fear not, Jed, I don't use Facebook either, apart from for certain specific purposes, but it's a great forum for your and my ex-colleagues from NMGS. You were in fact identified by at least 2 of your former mates & you'll be able to see who on the forum. The one we're 'talking' on now does contain a fair number of posts from those who had some bad experiences at NMGS as well as responses from fellow pupils, some kind & sympathetic, some not (one or two, who thankfully have vanished from it now, taking the stance that 'if it didn't happen to me it didn't happen'). But the lively dialogue on the Facebook site shows that most people liked & appreciated NMGS & want to stay in touch with their mates from there. I personally would love to see the school photo from 1968 as that may well have been my last one there as I departed in early 1969. If you go on there using the link I've provided & use my name as introducer (because I think they do scan new member appearances to avoid spam) that should get you connected & allow you to post the photo. Let me know if that doesn't work. All the best. Phil